ARRIVAL OF H. M. STANLEY.

INTERVIEW WITH THE GREAT EXPLORER.

[By our Special Reporter.]

It was my privilege on Thursday to meet the man whom the unsophisticated African is wont to call Bula Matari, or the "Rock-breaker," the "White Cap Chief." "The Master," and other titles indicative of respect and confidence. Mr. Stanley belongs to that class of men distinguished for smallness of stature and altitude of intellect ; the class to which Napoleon and a host of others who have secured a niche in the temple of fame belong. One can quite understand the force of character of a man like H. M. Stanley, when considering that the untutored savage is taught by tradition and experience to pay more homage to physique and muscular prowess than to the higher qualifications which better befit rulers of men. Mr. Stanley, who was overtopped by a head probably by the meanest of his followers, Zanzibaris, Madis, Somahs, or what not, has towered amongst the tribes of the Dark Continent as the "White Chief," of indomitable courage and endurance, which surpassed their own even in their native climate; a power of mind and organization which few of their hereditary chiefs had ever shown, and a strength of purpose to which the greatest potentate could not lay claim. Unlike one of Mr. Stanley's most devoted admirers, I did not expect to find in the Hero of Africa a paladin, a man of stalwart frame, commanding carriage, and haughty air. I simply found what I anticipated, an active-looking man with a well-knit frame, a capacious deep chest, and an air of well-governed energy, mental and physical, a man for great undertakings requiring ready action, unflinching courage, and unbounded faith in himself. Mr. Stanley is more like his portraits than his portraits are like him, because he gives the general resemblance with additions which no photographers nor the most minute of engravers can supply. I found the great explorer as simple mannered as that other explorer and leader of men, Sir George Grey, and as easy of access, so long as the person dealing with him spoke with directness of purpose. He was seated by himself in a railway carriage of the Melbourne express when I accosted him at the Mount Barker Junction, and readily entered into conversation after the greeting — "Mr. Stanley, I presume?" for I recognised him by the current likenesses, and by the fact that he wore a travelling cap much resembling the one made so familiar to us in the sketches of him.
 

THE COLOURED-LABOUR QUESTION.

In the course of conversation, in answer to a question respecting the coloured-labour matter, the great explorer said, "If I were a resident in Northern Australia, the first consideration would be as to how to make the best of the capital invested, and closely knitted in with that would be the labour problem, white or coloured. Now it appears from all said and done that white labour fails there as it has in some other places. I have seen a good deal of coloured labour in the Southern States of America and in Equatorial Africa, and under proper control and direction it brings as good results as white labour. The average white man is practically of no use for manual labour in a tropical climate, but he is good at directing and organising. We have a saying in Africa that the first year the white man is out there he is copper, the second year he is silver, and the third year he is gold — that is to say that as he becomes experienced and acclimatized and learns the language he improves in value to his employers, and is able to utilize the native labour to the best advantage for all concerned. Inexperience, obstinacy, and ignorance count many victims. In the Congo State we had 300 white men, and many of them returned home the year they arrived. Those who remained were not of much use the first year because they did not understand the language, but as they became familiar with it and the climate and customs their usefulness improved. In three years they gave a good account of themselves. The success of coloured labour is intimately associated with the character of the white management ; the blacks may be good servants with bad masters. It is of little use having patience, muscles, and willingness at command if those qualifications provided by the coloured servant are ill-directed. Uniting those qualifications by well-directed effort and judgment the Congo Free States were formed.

EAST AFRICA. 

Only three days ago there appeared a telegram to the effect that the British Government had subscribed £20,000 for a survey in East Africa, and British surveyors will be sent out to manage with some 300 natives— East Africans —and when the survey is completed there will be introduced some 200 or 300 British officers, and they will require say 5,000 or 6,000 natives to assist in the construction of the railway. Now, the difficulty is that with the anti-slavery notions of the British there may be some trouble about the employment of native labour — you know how prone the Englishman it home is to act upon wrong impressions, and how obstinate he is in holding to them. Now, it would require five batches of 6,000 Europeans to do the work of as many natives, and the cost would be very much greater of course. To carry out any large works in Africa native labour must be employed. I am given to understand that the climate in your Northern Territory is not unlike that of some parts of Africa, but there may be far less malaria, and that Europeans cannot stand hard labour in the open, therefore coloured labour becomes a necessity. Now we find in East Africa that to do anything without coloured labour would be impossible. In the employment of the coloured population you Australians must avoid the error into which the Americans fell. The Americans were perfectly justified in freeing the slaves in order to prevent that dreadful traffic in men as goods and chattels, but the Americans went to the other extreme ; they gave the voting power to the coloured people, who were for all practical purposes very little better than children in intelligence. Now the Americans have as yet not given voting power to their women — you want to I believe — though the white women and children of the States are infinitely superior in mental power to the American negro. The Americans have been very lavish in their generosity to the coloured man, and one section is protesting. They have put in the hands of the negroes great political power which they may rashly exercise, and the same thing applies elsewhere under similar conditions. The coloured races employed to do work the white man cannot compass should be looked after as carefully as are the white women and children who are not allowed to vote, and who are quite content to leave the government to the men. The coloured men if treated properly are quite content to let their white employers legislate for them. Laws could be passed for the protection of the dark peoples without going to the extent of giving them the franchise. If our white women in the bulk say that they are quite content to let their husbands legislate surely the negro ought to be content, and trust to the fairness of the white men ; if the laws were sufficient for the white women they should be good enough for the blacks, who were but grown-up children.
"What is your opinion of the proposal to deport the negroes to Africa?"
"Oh! it is quite feasible, but it will never be done. There is a large section of the American people who declare that the negroes in the States do not unduly compete with them. Of course if there were no coloured barbers, waiters, and what not, the places would be filled by whites, but that is trivial. But the excess of coloured over the white population with you is a long way off, and could easily be guarded against."
After a pause, Mr. Stanley, pursuing his train of thought, which seemed to be upon the easygoing nature of the British, remarked, "You were ruled by your kings, then by the barons, then by the aristocrats, and now by the wealthy ; and your extreme generosity has been the mischief for you."
In reference to General Booth's South African scheme, the great explorer said, "The American people have a different way of looking at the immigration question to what you have. They reckon an able-bodied white man to be worth $1,000 to the country, but they are careful not to allow all sorts to come in ; whereas you Australians appear to allow the fullest privileges to any who come to your country, which the Americans would not permit without certain residential qualifications. In Australia you give political power to what the Yankees call "poor whites," who have no useful place in the country.
"That brings me to the question of the unemployed, Mr. Stanley."
" Oh, I saw something of the unemployed in Melbourne, and I must say that I saw a feeling of deep and earnest intent amongst the labouring classes. I was much impressed with the general bearing, physique, and orderliness of the men. There is a great defect to remedy, and, as I have remarked before, it takes a calamity to teach a white man as well as a black how to live wisely. I have not had time to study this labour question of yours fully, but I must say I thought the workmen I saw in the streets were very intelligent-looking fellows ; they were what I should call a valuable lot of men. The time will come when the labour party will have irresistible political power, and be able to do whatever they think best for themselves, and they will have the land, you may be sure of that. Now, some of them seem to forget that the land has been developed by the expenditure of hundreds of thousands of pounds by men who ventured their capital and utilized land which would have remained idle but for them. It would be an injustice to those who opened up the country to take the land from them without some equivalent for their expense, enterprise, and labour — not to speak of privation such as early pioneers suffer. When the land is made valuable and productive it is then that a certain class cast envious eyes upon it. If the people wanted the land they should buy it as soon as possible at a fair price, for the longer they postpone the purchase the dearer it will be." . . . .
He did not appear much disposed to say anything of his experiences with Major Barttelot, but referred to those who stood passively by and allowed the Major to flog men to death as accessories, and he seemed to consider that the British Press showed an inclination to go for him any way. In a half-joking semi-sarcastic tone he said that when he went on the expedition to discover Livingstone his detractors called him a freebooter or something of the sort; when he went to the Congo River he was styled a pirate ; when he founded the Congo Free State he was a buccaneer ; and when he went to rescue Emin Pasha he was set down as an ivory-hunter. " So you see I could not please them any way," he said, with an air of amusement.
 When I asked him whether it was true that he intended to take up a political career he smiled and gave me an evasive answer. " When Mr. Smythe has done with me my first furlough after twenty-five years' hard work begins."
 " Is there any likelihood of your going back to Africa ?" I asked, and he answered in the Spanish fashion, " Who knows ?"
 "You cannot exist without adventure and excitement ?"
His eyes flashed, and with startling energy he said, " When I take up a thing I like to throw my whole soul, my whole energies into it. But it must be work I like."
"You must have a phenomenal constitution."
" Well, I do not know. My heart and lungs are sound, I enjoy life, I revel in action, and, after all, it is want of work that kills a man. It is that which makes your unemployed wretched. I take a delight in work. I take a delight in my plans ; action is everything to me."

 

South Australian Register (Adelaide, SA : 1839 - 1900), Friday 11 March 1892, page 6